correct? >> the latest set. >> does that answer your question? >> vice president fung: yes. >> we can hear from the department, mr. snyder, do you want to go first? >> president hwang, commissioners, good evening, dan snyder with the planning department. very briefly to frame this from a planning perspective, this is an as of right project. no neighborhood notice was required. it is code compliant. the issues you heard raised by appellant is on construction methodology, seismic issues. if you're inclined i would be more than happy to cede my remaining time to my colleagues at the building department who would speak to it with measure accuracy. >> vice president fung: no planning department notification was required. >> correct. absolutely no section 311 or 312 notification, no planning commission notification, from our department.

>> good evening, commissioners. patrick o'reardon, dbi. i won't even begin to speak to the complexities of the engineering involved with this project but it is complex and it does involve means and methods or personaliation grouting and tunneling, shoring, having to do with creating this additional basement space. so i did visit the site yesterday just to get an idea of what the -- was and what everything looked like, and reviewed the drawings. and i did note that the drawings showed the personaliation grouting to be within the property at 2865 vil ahoe and didn't show an encroach onto

2875 vallejo. no work was going on to this permit which was suspended anyway. today, i visited with our dbi engineering plan check folks. david pang happens to be on vacation all week so i spoke with his supervisor, robert chun. and he reviewed the documents before you here tonight. and it was his opinion that the review, having to do with this work, was appropriate. and he didn't see that there were any missteps with the review from the dbi perspective. i also noted that 22 special inspections are relating to this scope of work, which include items relating to the structure as well as the geotechnical aspects of the construction. so we will be doing our dbi

inspections, as necessary for the construction, when it is underway. and we will also be requiring those special inspections to be submitted to us with letters of certification, final letters at the end of the work and we will not sign off any approvals for the project until we have approved those certification letters and we're happy that everything is being monitored throughout the course of the work. so i believe that dbi also sent out notification to the adjacent building owners, as i understand it, it's a notification of a structural addition to the building owners on the adjacent properties as well as the three properties behind this property at 2865 vallejo. i'm available for any questions.

>> thank you. is there any public comment on this item? seeing none, then, sir, aren't you an employee or a paid consultant of the appellant? so you can speak under his remaining time but you can't speak under public comment. we are moving into rebuttal now. so the appellant, you have three minutes. >> we'd like to have mr. -- speak to you about the engineering side of this. but let me correct one thing. there was a comment about a stairway. we had a stairway between this work and my house, we wouldn't have any problems with the project. the stairway only goes back as far as the garage. from the end of the garage, it's all new excavation and there's nothing to keep -- it will be going right by my house. the wall is going to be three feet from each side wall, and the geogrout goes within one foot now. previously it went right to the

line. now they're saying it will miraculously stop one foot from the line, even though it's liquid. and they also have that in their exhibit showing -- you can see, maybe he can point that out. thank you very much. >> thank you. my name is ryan heart ludky. i'd like to answer one question that was asked about the other project. when we looked at the other project which was 2881 which was last year we reviewed the calculations and found -- ill say errors in the calculations or mistakes for design of the shoring. we talked to the design engineer and he modified the design to provide the proper strength for shoring of the excavation. that was part of my objective, and the service that i provide to keith on this job. when we got the project in mid-august, we met with the

contractor. once he heard that he had the permit we asked for the drawings, we asked for the calculations. respect dbi and dbi and the people that do the plan checking. i got a copy of the calculations and a copy of the shoring plans. you could not connect them. and i been in this profession for a very long time, almost 40 years. so that was number one. we couldn't make a connection with a bunch of computer -- but you couldn't tie the computer output to the plans. also, we did not have any drawings that illustrated the -- grouting. we met with the geogrout, and he showed us the plan this he had in mind. in the package that the attorneys put together, exhibit e, that shows the grouting for the gmi as proposed, mr. carp said that it's four foot six away, well it's four foot six away from his property line near

the back near the elevator lobby but adjacent, very close to his house, for i think 30 feet, near the house. so there's some misrepresentation. so i did subsequent to the filing of the appeal, i did have a conversation with the engineer that did the calculations. there were -- it's not perfect, but i understood it but i had to walk it through with him. maybe mr. pang did the same thing. the only way for me to understand was talk to the engineer that made the calculations and make a connection between the information that owe on the shoring plan. so the whole point is that it's high risk. i'm here to help mr. keith understand the risk and protect his property. so thank you. >> vice president fung: mr. ludky, i did not see, in your letter any indication of concern over the calculations. >> i couldn't understand the calculation. >> vice president fung: no. but you have reviewed it now with the structural engineer

that designed -- >> it's not perfect. there are overstresses in some of the members. but that's not -- i'm not going to -- i don't think it's appropriate to get into those details. it's not perfect, but it's better -- you know, it's adequate. i'll say that. it seems to be adequate. >> vice president fung: thank you. >> i have a question also. there was a statement that i had that if this geogrouting were to travel that it actually could be a benefit. could you discuss that. >> i think it's subjective. keith has probably some geogrout underneath the west side of his house from the 2881 project because that was adjacent to his property. if you have differential soil along the length of the property which it's going to entd up which think some of the foundation may have strengthened soil by the -- grouting, some of his foundation under his house may not. the question is how it's going to behave in a an earthquake with differential materials

under the house, i can't predict what would happen. but i think if all the construction is successfully executed, then all of the soil that's underneath his foundation will be restrained by the adjacent foundations and retaining walls and drainage if everything is properly built. my point of view in my recommendation to keith is it's a very high risk construction. we have done some due diligence talking to other geotechnical engineers that's had experience with these contractors. nobody's perfect. it depends a lot on who's doing the work. i told keith we would -- again, i understand what dbi said. having continued inspection, having people pay attention every step of the way what's going on would be highly desirable, especially in the shoring and excavation procedure because even the contractor says that personaliation grouting is not perfect. sometimes they find problems so they have to address the problems during excavation.

if the material was further away from the property, that would be less of a concern. i -- good construction, so that was my advice to keith. all right? >> we can take rebuttal from the permit holder. >> i'll try to briefly answer mr. ludky's points. he talks about unnamed geotechnical consultants. if they have, i haven't heard of them. he mentioned no names. this process that we went through is very sophisticated, as a design -- in design. the reviewer was david pang of dbi, who's very, very good engineer, who is a very, very good engineer. the gentleman here keep talking about geogrout. geogrout is a company that looked at the project a year ago, for a different structural

engineer, mersa in oakland. they are not involved in the project. we chose -- or the specialty subcontractor chose another contractor with bigger, better equipment, that is less seat of the pants type of work, it's electronic, it's very sophisticated. and it's the injection of a very fine -- cement. there's no chemicals involved because of the epa rules. and water. and it's like randy said, if you go to the beach, you excavate sand. at first, it's moist and it will stand up. it's moist and it will stand up. as soon as it dries, it starts to fall apart. so by turning it into this weak concrete or some people call it sandstone you do away with that. the process involves a grid of four foot six on center, not

from the property line. at four foot six on center, there's a nozzle that's stuck down and there's a group of people that are trained nozzlemen. there's dials on their machine -- on the top of the rod. the hoses, the exact pressure, how much grout goes into the cement. it's a very safe process. all the trees -- major trees above the grouting process, they're all going to be preserved. we have an arborist, a very sophisticated operation that's going to take place. and these nozzlemen who do the work are very experienced, and there's two of them for each -- one of them watches the dials, the pressure, the amount of water, the amount of cement, the mixture, then there's two or three people on the truck, there's people operating the hoses. it just -- it's way beyond what

these gentlemen think it is. they just don't know. but dbi knows because they approved these kind of projects all the time. and it's a safety measure -- some people try to excavate in sand without any shoring and that's when you'll have movement. but when you turn the sand into sandstone you don't have the movement. it's very expensive, very expensive. but that's the -- we're going through. thank you. anything else? any questions? >> thank you. >> thank you. >> any rebuttal from the departments? okay. commissioners, the matter is yours. >> vice president fung: well, commissioners, the question is

whether the department erred in issuing this permit. and what has been brought up is questions related to potential risk. i'd rather use that term. it's difficult to assess exactly what the risk is. the problem with underground is that it's not always consistent. and that runs from the borings that are done on a spot basis, limited basis, usually, to ascertain what the profiles are is one thing. however, most people would design these with a great deal of conservativism and i think that's probably what not only the engineers but the department

reviewing it. looking at the appellant's letters related to their analysis of the situation, i would say that their concerns are what is potential risk, and less so with a serious deficiency or error made in this particular either design or the issuance of the permit. i'm surprised that one of the things that wasn't brought up is water flow. it was, in one word issued in -- because underground construction like this especially, with this type of grouting, is going to change the water flow, undergroundwater flow in that area. whether it impacts adjacent neighbors or not, it's really hard to determine. but it's a common enough

technology these days, it's common enough to use it also for water-proofing purposes when you do certain types of injection. so i think that, at this point, i do not see anything in the appellant's appeal to warrant that we either condition or seriously review further the permit. >> president hwang: i'm similarly inclined to hold the permit. i think i'm sympathetic that as the neighboring adjacent property owner, you have concerns about this massive and complicated project happening right next to you. and i think, you know, raising

those concerns puts them on clear notice that should anything come up that impacts your home, you know, you've -- it's already been discussed. i don't think, however, we have enough before us to undo the work from the assessment of the department in issuing the permit. >> i appreciate commissioner fung's analysis in the framing it in terms of the potential risk versus any kind of known flaw. and so i would concur. >> vice president fung: i move to uphold the permit and deny the appeal. >> before a roll call, i just wanted to advise everyone in the room the sheriff has asked that we all exit through the grove street side of the building because of the activities

outside. >> vice president fung: grove street? >> grove street. >> vice president fung: how do we get there? >> in the basement. >> vice president fung: that's a long walk. >> exactly. >> thank you. >> we have a motion from the vice president to deny this appeal and uphold the permit. on that motion, president hwang, aye. commissioner hurtado is absent. commissioner lazarus, aye. thank up. 3-0, this permit is upheld. thank you. >> presiden.>> there is no furts before the board. >> president hwang: we're adjourned.

>> a great man, is that what you called me? she has to be reminded. -- would you tell that to anita? i congratulate you and thank

you for coming to san francisco. hopefully you also become a disaster --- we would be glad te to open up our minds and communities to receive ideas from across the country, if not the world as to how we can improve it. it never is about what just san francisco is doing. a lot of our ideas are homegrown. the ideas are transplanted and that is the greatness of our city. we're an international city. we want to show what ideas are coming out of the far east, china, malaysia, the philippines, singapore as well

as all over from europe. perhaps from africa and south america. we can learn from that just as we have done with concepts like sunday streets where people take back the streets and start having fun in our urban communities and bringing out the children to enjoy the environment. this is our future generations so we have to have the best ideas. how to keep our environment and our strong. i want to tell you that there are a tremendous amount of enthusiasm for keeping our city grain trade we have at least three different projects that we have been focused on for a number of years. i have had the privilege with working with mohammed and our city engineers to accomplish this. most importantly with our community leaders and volunteers throughout every part of our neighborhoods. i hope that you do you is your

time and take advantage of our wonderful weather to go out and do as many doors as possible of all the -- tours as possible of all the community gardens. we have a committee challenge program, one that i am proud to have headed up when we were at public works but also the city administrator. this program today funds almost $900,000 this year in programs that are all committee pushed. it is attacks checkoff for corporations and individuals. the fund this through the tax system to provide almost $1 million every year and is put into a community-driven process where community leaders will apply on behalf of themselves or their own streets or gardens and

they can get grants of up to $100,000 or as small as $5,000. they could be groups that have never done anything except to start talking to each other about how to increase their neighborhoods's interest in reading and the environment. we have associated ourselves with the parks alliance and the clean city coalition to provide administrative support to any group that forms. as well as those groups that have school -- school themselves and gotten well organized and know what they're doing in their communities and want to increase their gardens. there will be gardens and a small ones, a few hundred square feet to those that are thousands of square feet large. i am taking over -- and taking over alleyways and the median strips, taking over long-

abandoned areas and blighted areas. community groups and volunteers will form those alliances most of the time in concert with either dpw or our public utilities commission or our parks, recreation and parks department and we're open to those kinds of collaborations'. the committee challenge grant is an excellent model. without anybody's knowledge, i still call the director and say what is going on. dpw tried to keep out of their business. now our city [inaudible] i am reaching in to find out, what are those great things the neighbor rwanda to do and i would like to go out there and visit them. i signed off last year in 2011

the urban agriculture " ordinance. the ordinance for us was another reflection of city policy with the board of supervisors that we wanted to increase the opportunities for folks to grow crops. to grow agriculture, to be able to sell it if they so wish to to so we could have folks that already have that experience, but not necessarily at the corporate level. our urban agriculture is important to us. we have identified a number of abandoned lots all over the city and we would love to again excite volunteers and people who are interested in urban agriculture and the ability to distribute fresh produce to people who are in need. allow that to happen, working with our school district to see what can happen on their lots so the urban agriculture ordinance is something that you might want to take a look at. and finally, with our recreation and park department, the

community gardens program, another broad program we have. taking lots, whether they are a few hundred square feet or thousands of square feet and activating them and hosting volunteers to be able to build community gardens. we now have 35 and growing established community gardens in the city. and again, all run by volunteers. some of them that our individual lots and individuals will grow in them and there are lots that are shared responsibilities and shared neighborhood responsibilities to grow crops and to grow agriculture there for not only eating purposes or flowers or any of the things that individuals wish to have. and they are happening in our golden gate park as well as in our neighborhood parks. we're excited that you

hopefully, you can see those as well. those are three small examples of hopefully things that you can visit while you are here. i understand you are going through my home time, seattle next year -- my home town. seattle next. i was born and raised there. and of course, if that is not enough for you to do while you are here, you should talk to mohammed about getting tickets to the giants, the 49ers, or outside because that is -- outside plans because that is happening this weekend. that is the fun we have in our great city. we are a large city. i get to talk and write about the things we're doing, and i want you to know that the internment -- and permit, our commitment to greening are parts

of what we're here to do because of the advocacy that you do across the country, keep of that work, keep reminding mayors like me and everybody else we have an obligation to take the greening ideas and put them into the urban setting. give our kids the chance to get dirty with their hands, but watch things grow as they grow. this is the only way i know how to run the city. i have worked in this alleyways for many years. worked in the dirtiest smelling streets of our city. i come out loving our people even greater. whenever graffiti we have is our challenge. whenever illegal dumping that goes on. it is the ability to excite and organize our communities around these issues that bring out the best of all of us. the investment in our

neighborhoods is one of my number one priorities as the mayor of the city. and to have example after example of how we can unite more of our neighborhoods to make that investment, too. not just with money but with their skill sets. with their spirit. -- spirit of volunteerism. every other thing we can do to build strong communities. i know the guard association has as its core our own collaboration and education of folks to build that spirit out. and that spirit, the collaboration, that volunteerism will push us in government to do the right policies and open up more government were to the ideas that our neighborhoods have about building strong cities. thank you for being here. i want to thank all the sponsors from the hilton who is hosting as here to all the